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Schneider Trophy tech


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#21 Ricky

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Posted 20 November 2016 - 06:38 PM

Just wanted to say I had never seen this before - thanks Greg for showing us this innovative and fascinating aircraft. Almost a flying submarine!

#22 GregP

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 12:58 AM

The idea was to engage the water prop and get the aircraft up onto the hydrofoil, at which time they woudl engage the aero prop along qwith the hydro prop. When the aircraft had gained anough wpeed to be eable to continue on it sown, the pilot could disengage the water prop and continue on the aero prop.

 

I have seen a large RCD model of this fly and it flew quite well, sort of like a pattern aircraft. Bu of course, there were no airplane back then with the pwoer-to-weight ratio of a good RC and damned few today.

 

There are a couple of other really interesting aircraft. The Planes of Fame has, as far as I know, the only full-size SUpermarine S-6B replica anywhere in the world. It isn't currently assembled and togetherm but we have one and it is in very good shape, If we had the room, we'd love to assemble and display it.  Ed Maloney was a big fan the Schneider Cup airplanes because they led to modern fighters like the Spitfire, which grew directly out of the S-6B design and engine. As a result, in his archives is a very large and complete record of the Schneider Cup and the airplanes that flew in it.

 

I have done several 3-views for him of somewhat unusual Schneider Cup aircraft, of which Ed had the only pictures I have ever seen of some of them. I don't think anyone else in the family or museum staff are quite as enamored of teh Schneider Cup as Ed was, and I hope I'm wrong , there.



#23 Kutscha

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Posted 21 November 2016 - 01:09 AM

Schneider Cup airplanes because they led to modern fighters like the Spitfire, which grew directly out of the S-6B design and engine.

 

Certainly not directly. Initial Spitfire designs looked nothing like the S-6B. The only commonality between the Griffon and R engine was the bore and stroke.



#24 Wuzak

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 04:38 AM

Certainly not directly. Initial Spitfire designs looked nothing like the S-6B. The only commonality between the Griffon and R engine was the bore and stroke.

 

Correct.

 

The R was based on the Buzzard, which was a previous generation engine to the Merlin and Griffon.

 

There was a proposed detuned R which was named the Griffon I, but that did not proceed into production.



#25 Wuzak

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 04:49 AM

The idea was to engage the water prop and get the aircraft up onto the hydrofoil, at which time they would engage the aero prop along with the hydro prop. When the aircraft had gained enough speed to be able to continue on its own, the pilot could disengage the water prop and continue on the aero prop.
 
I have seen a large RCD model of this fly and it flew quite well, sort of like a pattern aircraft. Bu of course, there were no airplane back then with the power-to-weight ratio of a good RC and damned few today.


I don't believe the real thing got out of the water.

I will check with my books on the Schneider Trophy racers tonight.

 

The Planes of Fame has, as far as I know, the only full-size Supermarine S-6B replica anywhere in the world. It isn't currently assembled and togetherm but we have one and it is in very good shape, If we had the room, we'd love to assemble and display it.  Ed Maloney was a big fan the Schneider Cup airplanes because they led to modern fighters like the Spitfire, which grew directly out of the S-6B design and engine. As a result, in his archives is a very large and complete record of the Schneider Cup and the airplanes that flew in it.museum staff are quite as enamored of the Schneider Cup as Ed was, and I hope I'm wrong , there.


The Planes of Fame may have the only full size replica S6B in the world - the Science Museum in London has to make do with the real thing.
 
Supermarine_S6B_Science_Museum.jpg
 
http://www.ronandjim...rmarine-S6B.jpg
 
http://cdn-www.airli...61997.jpg?v=v40
  • CORSNING likes this

#26 Wuzak

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 08:54 AM

The Pc.7 never did get further than raising the propeller clear of the water and dragging it, tail submerged

 

 

From The Schneider Trophy Story, Edward Eves.



#27 Wuzak

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 12:04 PM

 

Little is known about these trials except that it proved impossible to get the nose to rise high enough for the air propeller to be engaged and lateral stability was very poor. A breakdown of flow over the hydrovanes would drop the nose of the aircraft back onto the water or, if asymmetrical, cause the aircraft to roll. There were also continual problems with power transmission to the water propeller that appear have to been due to oil seeping into the clutch. As there was no access hatch to enable this to be serviced the tests were abandoned.

 

Ralph Pegram, Schneider Trophy Seaplanes and Flying Boats - Victors, Vanquished and Visions.

 

There were 6 propellers ordered - 3 with ground adjustable variable pitch blades and three Reed type propellers.

 

The water propeller was variable pitch so that it can be changed to reduce drag.

 

Originally the engine was to be the FIAT AS5, but this was changed to the Isotta Fraschini Asso 500, which was modified to produce 800hp. The engine was also modified to have two output shafts.

 

The forward shaft was geared to give 2600rpm at the prop, and had a clutch and a braking mechanism which stopped the prop in the horizontal position.The rear drive was direct, and passed through a clutch to the water propeller.



#28 Armand

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 01:01 PM

I don't believe the real thing got out of the water.I will check with my books on the Schneider Trophy racers tonight.

Picture-googeling shows at least one picture shows it high in the water but without the (front) propellar in action, wich might be from initial experiments :-/

........the Science Museum in London has to make do with the real thing. 

*Smack* :-)

#29 Kutscha

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 01:12 PM

The pilot was Dal Molin but no take off was attempted.



#30 Wuzak

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Posted 22 November 2016 - 11:24 PM

Picture-googeling shows at least one picture shows it high in the water but without the (front) propellar in action, wich might be from initial experiments :-/


Like this?
https://i.kinja-img....ww8x0ky8jpg.jpg




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