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#21 flying kiwi

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 10:58 PM

How many Spitfires would Hartmann have come across on the Russian front?



#22 Wuzak

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 12:28 AM

I think the Bf 109 flown by an experten could, indeed, turn inside a Spitfire flown by a novice.

 

If the pilots are of equal skill, then the Bf 109 has no chance.

 

In evaluating the Bf 109E against the Spitfire I or II the RAE found that service RAF pilots would not turn the Spitfire to its full capability, due to their relative lack of experience. The RAE pilots, on the other hand, were confident enough to push the Spitfire to the stall, and turn far tighter.


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#23 Wuzak

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 12:29 AM

See, he's done it again!

 

We are discussing one of his pet theories.


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#24 CORSNING

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 09:38 AM

Wuzak,

     There is nothing wrong with good discussions and clearing up myths. Even if

it is instigated by a wing nutted dip tube.

 

Flying kiwi,

     I do not know if he met any Spitfires while fighting in Russia but starting

in 1943 there were several Spitfire Vb with red stars on them. Spitfires IX

with red stars came later. But they were there. B)


Edited by CORSNING, 04 November 2016 - 02:29 PM.


#25 CORSNING

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 09:46 AM

http://lend-lease.ai.../articles/spit/


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#26 flying kiwi

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 02:50 PM

OK, thanks. The Spitfires were certainly in Southern Russia at the same time as JG52 was. I noticed that these were Mk Vs and JG52 were flying 109Gs. I also recall reading somewhere that the MkVs sent to Russia were completely clapped out and not as fast at local combat altitudes as the Russian fighters. What I hadn't realised was that they'd come in via Iran and fought in the south. I think I'd assumed they fought in the north with the Hurricanes, although I might be wrong about those as well :-)

 

As far as I know, the Mk 9s were used for air defence and didn't see much action.



#27 CORSNING

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 07:46 PM

     From all that I have read about the Spitfire and Airacobra in Russian service

during WW2. I get a very strong feeling that the Russians overall opinion was 

that the Airacobra was their preferred fighting vehicle.

     1. Both were capable of outturning the Bf.109.

     2. The Airacobra was over all considered a more rugged mount.

     3. Pilots preferred the fuselage central location of the armament.

     4. Pilots enjoyed the heavier hitting firepower of the Airacobra

     5. AA gunners did not have as much trouble distinguishing the Airacobra

         from the Bf.109 as they did the clipped wing Spitfires.

     6. The narrow set undercarriage of the Spitfire was considered too fragile

         for the terrain of most Russian airfield.

     7. The Spitfire did not have the initial acceleration in a dive compared to

         the Airacobra.

     I am sure I have missed a few reasons. It is very interest to note that they

considered the Airacobra the better fighter for their needs. Of course you have

to keep in mind that several of the Spitfires the Russian received were war

weary.



#28 CORSNING

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 07:48 PM

As far as I know, the Mk 9s were used for air defence and didn't see much action.

     I am going to agree with that statement from what I have read to date.



#29 GregP

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 02:40 AM

Shooter quit answering when it was pointed out that the slats only cover about 25% of the Bf 109 leading edge. The rest of the wing has a standard CL. So all that 25% really did was to keep the airflow attached to the ailerons down around the stall since teh slats were covering most, but not all, of the ailerons only. I went and measured them on our Hispano Buchon (Bf 109 G-2 wing).



#30 Wuzak

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Posted 17 December 2016 - 01:26 PM

Shooter has appeared again at ww2aircraft.net.






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