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Steel VS aluminium in the WW2 aircraft


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#1 Armand

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Posted 01 July 2016 - 08:27 PM

I tipped Paul Birdseye to have a magnet at hand when wreck-diving, but have got second thoughts:
How commonly used was aluminium in aircraft-design in late 30's to early 40's?
I know that it was a relatively new metal for aviation use at the time, and as such not all designers might have been used to it when most of the major WW2 aircraft was designed in the mid 30's and even the Hurricane was of classic canvas-design, not to mention the Plywood Mosquito!
Beside it's probably also a question of availability, at least during wartime.
My question will be: How many of the classic WW2 aircrafts was build by the use of aluminium?
And If the question is 'all': Was even the ME262, wich was built in the troubled period of German industry, build of aluminium?
Last: would there have been designs of combination (ex steel trellis and aluminium sheeting)?

/Regards, Curious Kim.


Edited by Romantic Technofreak, 02 July 2016 - 05:13 AM.


#2 Romantic Technofreak

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 05:18 AM

Aluminium was very common since (at least) the early 30s. The Junkers F 13 from 1919 was already a step in the right direction. Producing an aircraft from steel was uncommon - and unsuccessfull, note the Armstrong-Whitworth Albemarle. And yes, the skin of the Me 262 was made of aluminium.

 

Japan conquered rich bauxite deposits in the Philippines and Malaya, Germany did the same concerning Yugolslavia. And, it was proverbial, in the later phase of the war so many Allied aircraft were shot down over Germany that, by this, the aluminium supply was secured as long as Germany produced aircraft.

 

One word about spelling mistakes: Every time now I see the word "aircrafts" it will loose the tail "s". B)

 

Regards, RT



#3 Armand

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 11:55 AM

Aluminium was very common since (at least) the early 30s. The Junkers F 13 from 1919 was already a step in the right direction. Producing an aircraft from steel was uncommon.


Funny as I until now have mistaken the corrogating of the JU-52 for being steel :-(

And yes, the skin of the Me 262 was made of aluminium.


!

Japan conquered rich bauxite deposits ..... Germany did the same ......
And, it was proverbial, in the later phase of the war so many Allied aircraft were shot down over Germany that, by this, the aluminium supply was secured...


Oh! The supply from the heaven by the enemy!
Hard facts :-o
I wonder If it actually became Germanys second biggest Aluminium source :-/

One word about spelling mistakes: Every time now I see the word "aircrafts" it will loose the tail "s". B)


But: Without the crafts of noumerous men, there wouldn't be any aircraft(s) ;-)
Please excuse my misspellings as I really try to master this, the one of My two foreign languages, and actually feels a steadily improvement, However I need to get the failure here explained thoroughly, please.
And then ofcourse there is the eternally battle with the autocorrecture on my Danish keyboard ;-)

Edited by Armand, 02 July 2016 - 11:59 AM.

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#4 Chino Kid

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 04:04 PM

However I need to get the failure here explained thoroughly, please.
And then ofcourse there is the eternally battle with the autocorrecture on my Danish keyboard ;-)

 

Not a failure at all. Armand, your communication in English is quite understandable, far better than mine would be in Dutch. Cudos to you for the effort you are putting in. I know with me (at least) on this forum you will see much English slang and aircraft jargon. 

 

English is a very difficult language to master for non-native speakers. Hell it's even difficult for native speakers to get its nuances right.  Craft is used as a verb and as a noun. And as a noun it can be singular or plural. 

 

As a verb one would say "I can craft a good argument for your point" where craft means "build".

As a singular noun you could say " the Constellation was the epitome of the designer's craft" where craft means vocation.

Or as a singular noun one could say "What kind of craft is this?" when looking at a strange spaceship :)

And of course if there were more than one, you would say "What kind of craft are those?"

 

So there is no need for an "S" after craft to make it plural because it already is. Sometimes. Without context, the word "Aircraft" all by itself can mean one or many.

 

Craziness, huh?

 

By the way- you are "20 nm east of BLL". What is BLL?


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#5 Romantic Technofreak

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 05:31 PM

I wonder If it actually became Germanys second biggest Aluminium source :-/

Let me give you a link to a German book (Manfred Knauer, Hundert Jahre Aluminiumindustrie in Deutschland...):https://books.google...ILTAD#v=onepage

 

Please read two sentences: "Der wichtigste Rohstoff für die Umschmelzwerke war Flugzeugschrott, der vor allem in den letzten Kriegsjahren reichlich zur Verfügung stand. Die Produktion der Umschmelzwerke erreichte 1944 fast 150.000 Tonnen."

In English: "The main raw material for remelting was wrecked aircraft, which mainly in the last years of the war was abundantly available. Production of remelting plants reached 1944 nearly 150,000 tonnes." The table "Hüttenproduktion" above means how much aluminium was produced from bauxite raw material. You see the relation 244 : 150.

(Needless to add that the Germans also recycled there own crashed aircraft had they fallen on own-held ground).

 

Please excuse my misspellings

No need to excuse. I only wanted to explain to you where your tail-"s"'s have gone in case you miss them... :)

 

Regards, RT



#6 Armand

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 05:59 PM

 .......tSo there is no need for an "S" after craft to make it plural because it already is. Sometimes. Without context, the word "Aircraft" all by itself can mean one or many.


Thanks!
But: "Beside bricklaying the construction branch contains several crafts" - Or not?
 

By the way- you are "20 nm east of BLL". What is BLL?


Its not a secret, and the term is only a try on being aviational.
IMO it should be such obvious that I in disapointment gives You another chance to visit uncle Google before I'll cut it out in cardboard ;-)

#7 Armand

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 06:07 PM

Let me give you a link to a German book (Manfred Knauer, Hundert Jahre Aluminiumindustrie in Deutschland.........
- Please read two sentences: "Der wichtigste Rohstoff für die Umschmelzwerke war Flugzeugschrott.....
- In English: "The main raw material for remelting was wrecked aircraft,.......

Thanks!
Also for giving Me opportunity to practice both of my foreign languages ;-)

Reading on the stuff by myself (wich I should have done at first!) it shows that the alloyed aluminium actual is a German invention!

Edited by Armand, 02 July 2016 - 06:10 PM.


#8 Ricky

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 06:58 PM

Let me give you a link to a German book (Manfred Knauer, Hundert Jahre Aluminiumindustrie in Deutschland...):https://books.google...ILTAD#v=onepage

Please read two sentences: "Der wichtigste Rohstoff für die Umschmelzwerke war Flugzeugschrott, der vor allem in den letzten Kriegsjahren reichlich zur Verfügung stand. Die Produktion der Umschmelzwerke erreichte 1944 fast 150.000 Tonnen."
In English: "The main raw material for remelting was wrecked aircraft, which mainly in the last years of the war was abundantly available. Production of remelting plants reached 1944 nearly 150,000 tonnes." The table "Hüttenproduktion" above means how much aluminium was produced from bauxite raw material. You see the relation 244 : 150.
(Needless to add that the Germans also recycled there own crashed aircraft had they fallen on own-held ground).


Regards, RT

Fantastic information thanks RT

I think the British made similar use of crashed aircraft during the Battle of Britain... which means it is not impossible that the same piece of metal serves on both sides, multiple times!
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#9 Armand

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 07:29 PM

.......I think the British made similar use of crashed aircraft during the Battle of Britain... which means it is not impossible that the same piece of metal serves on both sides, multiple times!


DH Mosquito being the one with responsibility of breaking the circle ;-)

#10 Chino Kid

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Posted 02 July 2016 - 08:22 PM

Thanks!
But: "Beside bricklaying the construction branch contains several crafts" - Or not?
 

 

Yes, that is absolutely correct usage.  So "craft" may be singular or plural with or without an S.   :wacko:


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