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Six'n half months effort - 75 Years legacy.


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#21 CORSNING

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Posted 15 August 2016 - 06:39 PM

:huh:  :unsure: . A very cool helmet though. :)  ;)



#22 Armand

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Posted 25 August 2017 - 07:53 PM

Bf.109E vs. H81-A1 June 1940

My mind is always in turmoil from 'What Ifs?'. What If the French had held on a few months more and the P-40 H81-A1s had made it into their possession before the armistice? I did a side by side analysis of their
performance and came up with the following results: If French P-40s had met the Bf.109E in battle over
France, the Germans would have been in for a little surprise ..........
What I am saying is, If the H81-A1s had reached France in time to join in the battle, the Germans would have
been in for somewhat of a surprise. While the Curtiss could not match their contemporary counterparts
from Messerschmitt and Supermarine at altitudes over 15,000 ft. they could match them at lower levels up
until the advent of the Bf.109F and Spitfire V of 1941.

BUT that is just one of those "What Ifs" that never happened.
)

I think that Göring got himself a surprise without the French H81's: Except from Soviet Union was France the only German invasion wich wasn't compleated winthin a day or two and especially in the air did the French fight fiercely and caused losses of 1236 Luftwaffe aircraft!
However it was with an own loss rate of 2:1.
The losses is thought to have postponed the Blitz and eventually caused the planned invasion across the Channel to be abandoned, hence have to be percieved as a major cut in the Luftwaffe!
As any other airforce of the time was le Armé de l'Air a mix of outdated and more capable aircraft and as the loss-rate must have been high among the obsolete aircraft might it indicate that the best French fighters was quite up to their opponents.

Edited by Armand, 26 August 2017 - 09:12 AM.


#23 Armand

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 09:46 AM

Addition to Jeff's thoughts of battle of France:
Dunkirk is actual in the movies right now, hence it's a sin by me to forget the RAF expeditional force of ten Hurricane squadrons being present from the first day of the German attack!
During their short 11 day campaign, until Dunkirk, did the RAF Hurricanes manage a score of 499 kills (of wich Luftwaffe records confirms 299 and 65 heavy damaged) wich in fact is quite a large part of the total 1236 losses by Luftwaffe, nevertheless compared to the short period.
Hence a likely size of French H-81's fighting during the entire period of the BoF might have hurt Luftwaffe additional harder.
Due to the effect of the actual losses would a possible double-up have changed the behaviour of the Luftwaffe remarkable for maybee the rest of the war, hence the subject is really one of the big "what if's" :-o

Edited by Armand, 26 August 2017 - 09:53 AM.


#24 USAF Steve

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 05:59 PM

It's always interesting to me how far a topic will stray within 10-15 replies!  Not being critical, because the replies are interesting, just an observation about the internet in general.  

 

I do think the shark mouth design is most closely associated with the AVG just due to the circumstances and the success the AVG had.  If I recall most fighting was done by the AVG after Pearl Harbor, so allied successes of any kind were hard to come by, at least in Asia.   Not to mention the fascination many people in the US had for all things China, the fact these were 'volunteer' pilots (overlooking the mercenary part).  The allied public was starved for good news and some redemption on the battlefield in Asia so the easily recognizable shark mouth artwork just imprinted itself on the public's psyche.  A case of right time, right place to secure fame for that artwork and attach it to the AVG rather than earlier users of that imagery. 



#25 CORSNING

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 07:24 PM

Steve,

Just a simple note; The earlier users of the artwork used the teeth in hopes of 

deterring the enemy. The AVG used the artwork just to remind the enemy of

what happens when you get too close to the teeth.

B)  ;)  :)



#26 CORSNING

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 06:20 PM

It's always interesting to me how far a topic will stray within 10-15 replies!  Not being critical, because the replies are interesting, just an observation about the internet in general.  

Not too far off topic. Underdogs trying to stave off the enemy in early P-40s, both the AVG and would have been French. :) 

 

 

I do think the shark mouth design is most closely associated with the AVG just due to the circumstances and the success the AVG had.  

I agree.

 

If I recall most fighting was done by the AVG after Pearl Harbor, so allied successes of any kind were hard to come by, at least in Asia.  

The AVG entered into battle for the first time on 20 December 1941. Thirteen days after Japan bombed Pearl Harbor.

 

Not to mention the fascination many people in the US had for all things China,...

That is a fact for the time. I have worked in maintenance for over 42 years. When it comes to repair parts these days I cringe at

the words "Made in China".

 

 The allied public was starved for good news and some redemption on the battlefield in Asia so the easily recognizable shark mouth artwork just imprinted itself on the public's psyche.  A case of right time, right place to secure fame for that artwork and attach it to the AVG rather than earlier users of that imagery. 

I completely agree.






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