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What if: Luftwaffe raid on US east coast cities

luftwaffe atlantic USA Doolittle bomber hypothetical

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#11 Heräkulman Ruhtinas

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 08:47 PM

 Hindsight is always 20/20  :D

 

Yeah the Lend&Lease stuff and so. OK my memory was wrong about Roosevelt and maybe the whole isolationist tendency was in the previous war.

 

I fully realize that the "Amerika-bomber" project was kind of sidenote and it never had real funding after 1939.

 

To add to that, even the mighty B-29 lacked the range to bomb Third Reich mainland from USA. Even for US economy, long-range bombing campaign could have been tough to handle. 

 

In OTL, even if Third Reich could field enough bombers and somehow collect the fuel for the 20 plane raid (which would be at least week off from operations from some JG), after 1943 there would not be any effect.

 

So, hypothetically speaking, and ATL (Alternate TimeLine), for undisclosed reasons Luftwaffe fields in 1943 a FernKampfGeschwader of 4 gruppen with two of them equipped with bombers with suitable range to hit US east coast.

 

If this strike happens, what happens with the allies? Reducing the start of bombing campaign in ETO and less resources for MTO? US pulling back wings for homeland security?


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#12 Kutscha

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Posted 11 December 2015 - 11:30 PM

In June 1943 there was ~3100 1st line fighters in CONUS rising to ~5100 in Dec 1943.

 

In June 1943 there was ~4300 1st line fighters overseas rising to ~6200 in Dec 1943.

 

In June 1943 there was ~2400 1st line fighters vs Germany rising to ~3400 in Dec 1943.

 

Granted all CONUS fighters would not be on the east coast but if this raid took place it is doubtful any resources would be held  back as there was enough fighters on hand.



#13 curmudgeon

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 05:00 AM

Everything I know contradicts this. Roosevelt effectively entered the war well before any declaration, opposed by an isolationist Congress. Ships were exchanged for basing rights, the USN helped with convoy escorts, US Naval yards helped repair RN ships........

 

www.boundless.com/u-s-history/textbooks/boundless-u-s-history-textbook/from-isolation-to-world-war-ii-1930-1943-26/conflict-in-europe-202/america-s-growing-involvement-in-wwii-1109-9746/

When was the Convair B36 first contracted for? 1940? 41? It first flew in 1946.



#14 flying kiwi

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 10:08 AM

The design competition for the B-36 began on the 11th of April 1941. The Amerika bomber project can be traced to about 1938, but nothing was really done until 1942. The American Germany bomber was a serious proposition before the German Amerika bomber ever was. Even so, I don't think it entered service until 1949. Given the American economic and industrial advantages, plus the fact that they weren't being bombed, they should have been able to run a project of this magnitude far more quickly than Nazi Germany. Of course, by 1943 it may have lacked urgency since it would have been pretty obvious by then that the mainland of the UK was not going to be invaded.



#15 Ricky

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 02:49 PM

 

 

If this strike happens, what happens with the allies? Reducing the start of bombing campaign in ETO and less resources for MTO? US pulling back wings for homeland security?

 

Actually, thinking about it the most likely outcome is that the RAF and USAAF/USAF pay a LOT of attention to Luftwaffe bomber bases. 



#16 Heräkulman Ruhtinas

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 04:29 PM

In June 1943 there was ~3100 1st line fighters in CONUS rising to ~5100 in Dec 1943.

 

In June 1943 there was ~4300 1st line fighters overseas rising to ~6200 in Dec 1943.

 

In June 1943 there was ~2400 1st line fighters vs Germany rising to ~3400 in Dec 1943.

 

Granted all CONUS fighters would not be on the east coast but if this raid took place it is doubtful any resources would be held  back as there was enough fighters on hand.

 

Have you got better disposition of fighter units assigned to East Coast US? I tried to look but ended up with very vague results of units and what planes they did have. 


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#17 Ricky

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Posted 26 December 2015 - 06:35 PM

Were those fighters actually in combat units? Often figured like that are aircraft awaiting delivery or sent home for repair
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#18 Kutscha

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Posted 27 December 2015 - 01:16 AM

Have you got better disposition of fighter units assigned to East Coast US? I tried to look but ended up with very vague results of units and what planes they did have. 

 

Maybe you will have better luck than I did with the 1st Air Force. It was assigned the air defense of the American east coast.

 

There was also USN air units.



#19 Heräkulman Ruhtinas

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Posted 28 December 2015 - 05:24 PM

Kutscha,

 

this was real can of worms  :blink:

 

The amount of incomplete references is rather overwhelming....

 

Boston Air Defense Wing

Components

 

New York Fighter Wing

 

Components

 

 

 

Norfolk Fighter Wing

 

Philadelphia Fighter Wing

 

Components

 

 

In 1944 those were disbanded due to lack of threat to CONUS. 

 

Equipped with P-40, P-47, P-35 mainly.


Edited by Heräkulman Ruhtinas, 28 December 2015 - 05:24 PM.

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