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The first jet-propelled night fighters

Me262 Messerschmitt Luftwaffe Night Fighter

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#1 Heräkulman Ruhtinas

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 08:52 AM

Messerschmitt Me 262's of 10./NJG 11 and Kommando Welter

 

Detailed information about planes of

 

10./NJG 11 and Kommando Welter

 

And further information of

 

Kommando Welter, the first jet-equipped night fighter unit

 

 

 

-HR


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#2 Armand

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 09:45 PM

I wonder If the risk for over- flying/shooting isn't such big during nightfall that the speed of the jet could be a handicap more than an advance :-/
And wich other advance by the jetengine could trump that instead?
I presume the early flewn radars only gave directional advice, hence the device would not help much around the overflying issue :-/ Please correct me If this is wrong!

#3 Kutscha

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Posted 27 November 2015 - 09:56 PM

Armand it would be for the 'slow' 4 engine bombers but not so for the 'fast' Mosquito.

 

Maybe I am wrong but it was my understanding that the radar equipped Me262's primary target was the Mossie.

 

Lichtenstein FuG202 radar had range, elevation and azimuth indicators.



#4 Heräkulman Ruhtinas

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 11:23 AM

It is doubtful that any of the radar-equipped Me 262 B-1a (trainers refitted as night fighters with Umrüst-Bausatz 1, as the B-1a/U1) with on-board FuG 218 Neptun high-VHF band radar reached real operational status before 08.05.1945 although Welter tested those for sure. 

 

Most (or maybe even all) of the claims were made with "Wilde Sau" tactics, ment for single-seat day fighters operating at night.

 

10./JG 300, Kommando Welter and 10./NJG 11 were all made for intercepting Mosquitoes in mind, and Welter claimed quite many.

 

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#5 Armand

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 06:23 PM

Armand it would be for the 'slow' 4 engine bombers but not so for the 'fast' Mosquito.


Where dayligt interceptions demands a fighter wich can run up a spotted enemy, I find that night operations makes it impossible to spot and run-up enemies, hence the speed seems a little advance :-/
If the tactics morely leaned on accidental meetings the surplus of speed might neither be an advance, and the same for the Wilde Sau tactics wich relived on high levelled nightfighters using the backlight of low para-flares as well as the burning target beneath.
The 262 as nightfighter might IMO be one of der Führers sudden decisions

#6 Heräkulman Ruhtinas

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Posted 30 November 2015 - 08:25 AM

10./JG 300 was formed to catch Mossies at night using Wilde Sau tactics with their Bf.109's but they were struggling to catch them,  hence something faster was needed.


Edited by Heräkulman Ruhtinas, 30 November 2015 - 08:26 AM.

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#7 curmudgeon

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 05:15 AM

10./JG 300 was formed to catch Mossies at night using Wilde Sau tactics with their Bf.109's but they were struggling to catch them,  hence something faster was needed.

I think it is in Chisholm that 100Group put some Mosquito nightfighters into the nightly Berlin raid after some losses. Something came up fast behind a nightfighter with tail-warner, they pulled around and gave a burst at the night fighter (without results?). Mosquito losses never rose to the point it was considered worthwhile to defend them (or to install tail-warners)



#8 Armand

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 01:45 PM

Mid 40's tail-warner!? By a persons fysically sight or tech-stuff??

#9 Heräkulman Ruhtinas

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 02:11 PM

I think it is in Chisholm that 100Group put some Mosquito nightfighters into the nightly Berlin raid after some losses. Something came up fast behind a nightfighter with tail-warner, they pulled around and gave a burst at the night fighter (without results?). Mosquito losses never rose to the point it was considered worthwhile to defend them (or to install tail-warners)

 

"Monica" tail warning radar was not used after autumn 1944 because RAF learned from captured Ju88G that Luftwaffe had FuG227 Flensburg passive device which was homing to "Monica" radar. So that made it easier for the Luftwaffe to find the bombers.


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#10 CORSNING

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Posted 12 December 2015 - 03:38 PM

Mid 40's tail-warner!? By a persons fysically sight or tech-stuff??

Tech-stuff. I would like to elaborate but my knowledge of such is next to nil. I Know that tail radar was being installed in Mustangs near the end of hostilities, but sad to say that is the limit of my knowledge. AT THIS TIME.







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