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Not so well known Red jets in Korea


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#11 Flo

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 10:41 AM

...there are obvious differences between Messerschmitts and Zeros.

But choosing a pairing much closer in appearance to the Mig/La might demonstrate Rickys point better. How about if a hypothetical encounter involved a mixed bag of Ki 61s and Macchi C.202s? Like the Mig/La pairing they shared broadly similar airframes and engines; they'd be very difficult to tell apart, just like the Soviet 'planes.

#12 Ricky

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 12:29 PM

But my point revolves around the fact that Zeros and 109s are very different. If a formation of Zeros can be identified as a mixed formation of Zeros and Bf 109s, then a formation of MiG-15s can be much more easily mistaken for a mixed formation of MiG-15s and La-15s

(here is the post about the Zero/109 mix-up)

#13 Flo

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 04:24 PM

I stand corrected.

#14 Double T

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 12:12 AM

Why did the British paint their bombers black on the undersides?


I can't speak for the British, but the USAF painted the undersides of 19th BG B-29s at some point after 1950. I suspect this was after daylight bombing raids over the North became too costly due to AAA and Mig interceptions. They flew night missions after daytime mission-losses became too costly.

Here's a website with some handsome reference study illustrations.
http://www.markstyli...29s_korea_1.htm

I just finished the restoration of a 1/48 scale Monogram B-29A Superfortress "Raz 'N Hell" of the 19th BG/28th BS based at Kadena circa 1950. (See #14 illustration... misidentified as "Mule Train" of the 33rd BS.)

I originally built this model for it's Korean War Co-Pilot Lt. Edward Bradfield of Rockville, IN. After his passing, his daughter gave it back to me. I have completely overhauled it, and it looks great with new decals courtesy of Revell, a new aluminum paint-job and Bare Metal Foil accents... and a correct set of Hamilton-Standard propellers, replacing the cuffed Curtis props that came with the kit. (These were only correct for the "Silverplate" B-29s.)

Tim

#15 Edgar Brooks

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Posted 07 December 2012 - 04:27 PM

Why did the British paint their bombers black on the undersides?

Put simply, in a black night, in blackout conditions, it seemed a good idea, at the time. The first thing that caught the official eye (literally) was the fuselage roundel, which, at the start of the war, had a broad white circle; when trials were carried out, it was noted that, when caught in a searchlight beam, the white shone back to the viewer "like a second searchlight." Some Bomber Groups took it upon themselves to grey-out the circle, and, eventually it was made smaller, so could only be seen at a distance when the shape of the aircraft was already visible.
During an experiment with aircraft painted half black/half green (literally down the centre-line,) it was found that green was far less visible, from above, which is why nightfighters used the same camouflage patterns as, and a similar grey/green scheme to, the day fighters. Some Air Ministry "mandarins" obviously remembered the effectiveness of the pre-war NIVO scheme, which was a dark green, and restarted the process (although hotly disputed in some circles, there is evidence that the sole Typhoon nightfighter was painted a very dark green and desert yellow.)
By the beginning of 1945, Bomber Command was moving over to painting their aircraft gloss black, but the war ended before it really took hold.

#16 Double T

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 12:05 AM

I understand early Mosquito NF aircraft were painted a special matte black, but the drag cost airspeed so they went to a gloss black finish after a time.
I believe the P-61 Black Widow was sprayed in gloss-finish when painted black.

Tim

#17 Ricky

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Posted 10 December 2012 - 08:16 AM

the sole Typhoon nightfighter


I'd never heard of a proposed Typhoon nightfighter - please expand!

#18 Edgar Brooks

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 01:38 PM

R7881, an early car-door 1B, was fitted with a radar system, which took the place of one of the wing fuel tanks, so the aircraft had to carry Hurricane-style underwing tanks. Aerials were fitted in both wings outboard of the cannon, and there was a small repeater fitted under the gunsight.
There are photos in "Typhoon & Tempest at War," by Arthur Reed & Roland Beamont, and, in Profile no. 81, Francis K. Mason says that it was painted extra dark sea green and middle stone; although this sounds unlikely, I heard, years ago, about middle stone being used on nightfighters, possibly some tie-in with yellow paint and yellow moonlight. It wasn't a success, probably too much work for a single pilot, and the Beaufighter/Mosquito were considered more suitable.

#19 curmudgeon

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 04:22 AM

R7881, an early car-door 1B, was fitted with a radar system, which took the place of one of the wing fuel tanks, so the aircraft had to carry Hurricane-style underwing tanks. Aerials were fitted in both wings outboard of the cannon, and there was a small repeater fitted under the gunsight.
There are photos in "Typhoon & Tempest at War," by Arthur Reed & Roland Beamont, and, in Profile no. 81, Francis K. Mason says that it was painted extra dark sea green and middle stone; although this sounds unlikely, I heard, years ago, about middle stone being used on nightfighters, possibly some tie-in with yellow paint and yellow moonlight. It wasn't a success, probably too much work for a single pilot, and the Beaufighter/Mosquito were considered more suitable.


Rory Chisholm flew it and commented in 'Cover of Darkness' ...

#20 Pete57

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 01:29 PM

Some 25 years ago an article was published in Airpower Magazine, by Howard S. Myers, on his experiences as the pilot of the only all black RB-45C, S/N 48-027, serving with the 91st Strategic Reconnaissance Squadron in Korea.

Selected extracts from the published recollections of Howard S. Myers can be found at http://www.rb-29.net.../36hmyers2a.htm

Unlike the website, the magazine provided also details on the type of black paint that were tried in conjunction with the Allied searchlights, in order to find out the most suitable type.

Dull black was tried first, but it was found to be inadequate as the searchlight crews, with some difficulty at first, but with increasing ease with practice, managed to locate the aircraft – something that had to do with the fact that a dull object somehow ‘stands out’ in the night sky.

Gloss black was eventually determined to be the best solution as, unlike dull black, it was diffusing the light from the searchlight away, resulting in an ‘invisible’ target in the night sky.

It should also be noted that, compared to dull black, gloss black provided a few extra knots of airspeed as the test with the painted and un-painted Lockheed P-80A’s had demonstrated in 1946-47.

Best regards,

Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end -
Quote byTexas A&M Student





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