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Spitfire versus Fw 190A


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#131 GregP

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 02:24 AM

Power Climbing and Lift Climbing? Is that sort of like a thrust column? Or shooting across the circle?

 

There are no WWII fighters of which I'm aware that had the power-to-weight ratio to hover or even get close to it. You might "power climb" for a very short time, maybe several seconds even, but if you aren't above flying speed and making lift, you'll very soon be in a rapidly-descending spin, usually but not always to the left, but always out of control if you hold it in a climbing attitude ... indeed, if that is even possible in a fully-developed fighter stall. Mostly, if not all the time, they buffet maybe, break, mose over, and depart under power. That assumes a coordinated stall, not cross-controlled. If not, you WERE going to spin and maybe not recover under power.

 

There weren't any "flat rudder turn spins" in WWII. Once it started rotating, it was going around and down. They still do that, even today. Large, heavy engines are not good at hovering, but they drop exceedingly well, even while operating at full throttle. Most have the glide ratio of an anvil.


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#132 CORSNING

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 01:37 PM

     OK, I'll try this again. :rolleyes: Picture this, the aircraft will maintain its best climbing speed;

120, 130, 140, 150 mph....etc. However, as the aircraft begins to gain altitude the air 

continues to get thinner and thinner. So to maintain the same lift in the thinner air up

high it must decrease its angle of ascent to compensate. The aircraft has maintained

pretty much the same speed forward but now is increasing its speed horizontally and

decreasing its actual rate of climb vertically. B)  :)  :rolleyes: This decreasing angle upwards

continues until the aircraft can no longer climb vertically at its maximum attainable speed

at the altitude reached. This altitude is known as its absolute ceiling.


Edited by CORSNING, 19 April 2017 - 02:16 PM.


#133 flying kiwi

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 01:51 PM

If, in the Spitfire V example I mentioned above, the speed is the airspeed along the line of flight, the angle goes up to 14.7 degrees. I suspect that this may be the case at least with modern aircraft, where something liked the EE Lightning had a climb rate of about 50,000 ft/min. That's 600 mph in the vertical direction, but I don't know what the climbing speed was.



#134 Armand

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Posted 19 April 2017 - 06:43 PM

If, in the Spitfire V example I mentioned above, the speed is the airspeed along the line of flight, the angle goes up to 14.7 degrees. I suspect that this may be the case at least with modern aircraft, where something liked the EE Lightning had a climb rate of about 50,000 ft/min. That's 600 mph in the vertical direction, but I don't know what the climbing speed was.


The idea of the EE Lightning was purely rapid climb for interception and it took the Bloodhound SAM to exceed this numbers and supersede the interceptor in general.

The numbers for the Messerschmitt 163 rocket interceptor is a 70 degree climb whereunder It steadily accelerated from initial 10000ft/min to 31000ft/min at the service ceiling of 12000m (is there actual a service ceiling for rocket propelled aircraft with Oxygene suplied pilot?)

BTW: SAM's accelerate to the speed of sound during a distance equal to the double lenght of the missile, hence just afront of the launcher :-o

#135 curmudgeon

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Posted 28 April 2017 - 11:59 AM

The power/weight ratio of the Me163 was <1, it relied of aerodynamic lift and I expect there was a altitude it ran out of aerodynamic lift






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