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Pictures of B-29 with Grand Slam


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#1 Wuzak

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 12:46 PM

I found some pictures of B-29 loaded up with a Grand Slam Bomb. The internal bomb bay shot is interesting.

Posted Image
B-29 with Grand Slam Taxis (600 DPI) by RyanCrierie, on Flickr


Posted Image
B-29 with Grand Slam is Towed (600 DPI) by RyanCrierie, on Flickr


Posted Image
B-29 with Grand Slam Internal Closeup (600 DPI) by RyanCrierie, on Flickr


Posted Image
B-29 with Grand Slam Exterior Closeup (600 DPI) by RyanCrierie, on Flickr

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#2 oldbutnotwise

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 01:23 PM

When you see it on the B29 you got to wonder how they managed to drop it from Lancs, it looks huge even on the B29

#3 Flo

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 04:31 PM

Bomberguy reckons 41 dropped by war's end. Best ignoring the comments section...;)



#4 oldbutnotwise

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 05:59 PM

Posted Image

with two tallboys (note to walt - this is a B29 not a B17)

#5 Flo

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 07:32 PM

:eek: Wouldn't like to be on the receiving end of that lot...

#6 Edgar Brooks

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 09:24 PM

I can recommend "Barnes Wallis' Bombs," by Stephen Flower; it includes an entertaining item on the first dropping of the bomb. Publishers are Amberley, and the ISBN 978-1-84868-959-6.

#7 Wuzak

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 09:32 PM

Barens Wallis had intended the bombs to be dropped from higher altitudes (30,000ft+) than the Lancaster could carry it.

His calculations showed that the height the Lancs could drop the bombs from (22,000ft for Tallboy, <20,000ft - maybe as low as 18,000ft - for Hrand Slam) would still allow the bombs to achieve significant penetration, and thus maintain the blast effect that was desired.

Bomberguy mentions, in his preamble, that the height was a factor of inaccuracy. He didn't mention the biggest cause of inaccuracy - the bomb release mechanism.

For use on the Lancaster both Tallboy and Grand Slam were held in place by a chain wrapped around the bomb. To drop teh bomb the end of the chain would release. But this would often get momentarily hung up, so the bomb wouldn't necessarily be released on the bomb triigger command. And travelling at 200mph+ even fractions of seconds for the bomb not releasing would mean a great variation in position on the ground.

The B-29 could carry both bombs higher. The Tallboy system would appear to allow better release accuracy. And, of course, dropping two at the same time should ensure two hits very close together, possibly amplifying the effect. The pictures appear to show a chain system for release for Grand Slam so that probably has the same issues as the RAF system.

#8 Wuzak

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:07 PM

Bomberguy reckons 41 dropped by war's end. Best ignoring the comments section...;)


Flower has 40 Grand Slams aimed at target and 2 deliberately jettisoned.

Also, 879 Tallboys were used on active service. 835 aimed at target, 8 dropped accidentally, 7 carried by aircraft which were shot down before dropping the bomb, 29 jettisoned or abandoned after crash landing.

The 29 included 5 Tallboys abandoned at Yagodnik Russia.

#9 NeoConShooter

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:35 PM

I found some pictures of B-29 loaded up with a Grand Slam Bomb. The internal bomb bay shot is interesting.

Posted Image
B-29 with Grand Slam Taxis (600 DPI) by RyanCrierie, on Flickr


Posted Image
B-29 with Grand Slam is Towed (600 DPI) by RyanCrierie, on Flickr


Posted Image
B-29 with Grand Slam Internal Closeup (600 DPI) by RyanCrierie, on Flickr


Posted Image
B-29 with Grand Slam Exterior Closeup (600 DPI) by RyanCrierie, on Flickr

From Wiki;
The T-12 also known as Cloudmaker demolition bomb was developed by the United States from 1944 to 1948. It was designed to attack targets invulnerable to conventional "soft" bombs, such as bunkers and viaducts. It achieved this by having an extremely thick nose section, which was designed to penetrate deeply into hardened concrete structures and then detonate inside the target after a short time delay. This created an "earthquake effect".

The T-12 was a further development of the concept initiated with the United Kingdom's Tallboy and Grand Slam weapons: a hardened, highly aerodynamic bomb of the greatest possible weight designed to be dropped from the highest possible altitude. Penetrating deeply in the earth before exploding, the resulting shockwave was transmitted through the earth into structures. The resulting camouflet could also undermine structures. The bomb could also be used against hardened targets. The T-12 was not a simple scale up of the M110, but incorporated modifications based on testing and calculations.

Originally set to meet a 42,000 lb (19,000 kg) target weight (the maximum payload for the experimental Convair B-36 "Peacemaker" bomber), the original design with its hardened case was slightly less than 43,000. The final T-12 weighed 43,600 lb (nearly 20 metric tons). This was twice the size of the United States' previous largest bomb, the Bomb, GP, 22,000-lb, M110 (T-14), the American-built version of the British Grand Slam. The B-36 was redesigned so it could carry the T12, although a converted B-29 Superfortress was used for testing.

Weapons of comparable size to the T-12, such as the BLU-82 and GBU-43/B Massive Ordnance Air Blast bombs, were developed as latter-day US superbombs, but their utility is limited outside the realm of psychological weapons and demolition. Only the GBU-43/B remains in the inventory. They are not hardened and lack the hard target capability of the T-12 and its cousins. The Massive Ordnance Penetrator has been recently developed in light of unsatisfactory penetration by existing 2000lb and 5000lb class weapons.

http://en.wikipedia....12-USORDMUS.JPG
http://en.wikipedia....T-12_Cloudmaker

http://books.google....nepage&q&f=true

http://www.airpower....-apr/coker.html

#10 NeoConShooter

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:45 PM

Posted Image

with two tallboys (note to walt - this is a B29 not a B17)


They are not "Tall Boys", but Grand Slams! See this article, it used to have pictures, but they have some how been lost as the hosting web site changed over the years.
http://www.airpower....-apr/coker.html

The B-36 was test-flown for the first time in August 1946. Even then the first models of the B-36 could not carry the big bomb, and it would be some months before they could be modified to handle it. The Air Force, which was interested in experimenting with the 44,000-lb bomb, decided that a modified B-29 could handle the job until a B-36 was available.:eek:

Toward the end of the war a B-29 had been converted to carry two 22,000-lb bombs, one under each wing, for use against Japan. The two atomic bombs, the Fat Man and Little Boy, made use of this special B-29 unnecessary.13:eek:

The aircraft chosen for the alterations was a B-29A, No. 44-62263. The Wichita, Kansas, Division of the Boeing Company performed the fuselage work. Part of the body section under the wings was cut away, the rear bomb-bay doors were removed entirely, and the front bomb-bay doors were cut away to allow the nose of the bomb to protrude. In spite of these modifications, about half the missile hung out beneath the plane. The aircraft also required special instrumentation to measure wing deflection, “G” forces exerted on the plane, and acceleration of the aircraft upon release of the bomb. A separate instrument panel with the necessary equipment was installed so that a special camera mounted near the panel could photograph the instruments. The wing tips were painted with black and yellow strips of known width which could be photographed and the wing deflection computed. The instrumentation work was accomplished at Muroc AFB.14:eek:

#11 Wuzak

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:07 AM

They are not "Tall Boys", but Grand Slams!


They are Tallboys mate. (Note Tallboy is one word.)

I seriously doubt the ability of a B-29 to carry 2 Grand Slams.


The aircraft chosen for the alterations was a B-29A, No. 44-62263. The Wichita, Kansas, Division of the Boeing Company performed the fuselage work. Part of the body section under the wings was cut away, the rear bomb-bay doors were removed entirely, and the front bomb-bay doors were cut away to allow the nose of the bomb to protrude. In spite of these modifications, about half the missile hung out beneath the plane.


That about pefectly describes the installation depicted in the pictures.

#12 NeoConShooter

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:14 AM

They are Tallboys mate. (Note Tallboy is one word.)
I seriously doubt the ability of a B-29 to carry 2 Grand Slams.

That about pefectly describes the installation depicted in the pictures.


Yes, but the quote you post is from only one of the articles I linked to and that speciffic PP is the one describing the mods required to lift the T-12 at 44,000 pounds, not the Tallboy, or Grand Slam! See the entire link, then you can get the idea!

To prove it to yourself, measure the length of the bombs in that picture and then the root cord of the wing just over head. Take that ratio and then multiply it by that cord length to see that they are in fact Grand Slams, not Tallboys!:eek:

#13 oldbutnotwise

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 08:23 AM

Walt are you seriously saying that a B29 could lift 44000lbs? a B50 was only rated to 24000lbs.

there seems to be a mix up, B29s were modified to drop 2xtallboys, 1 other (as shown in the pics) was modified to drop the grandslam 22000lbs as a test bed for the 42000lbs bomb destined for the B36.

it would seem that someone got his bombs mixed up - probably as some refer to the Grandslam as a Tallboy II.

Walt do you honestly think that your method of measurement can tell the difference between a 21' bomb and a 26' bomb?

#14 flying kiwi

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 10:02 AM

Yes, I can see the nose of the bomb protruding from where the front bomb bay doors were cut away.
Please read stuff before you cut and paste it.

#15 oldbutnotwise

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 10:49 AM

It would seem that a Tallboy was used as a gate guard at RAF Scampton after the war.

When they came to widen the road in the 50s it was found that the thing was live!

Edited by oldbutnotwise, 27 July 2012 - 10:51 AM.
Wrong RAF base


#16 Ricky

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 11:33 AM

I removed my post because I was wrong.

Edited by Ricky, 27 July 2012 - 11:34 AM.
Stupidity!


#17 Wuzak

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 11:58 AM

I removed my post because I was wrong.


Nooooo....that can't be right!

#18 oldbutnotwise

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:03 PM

I removed my post because I was wrong.


We can t be having this, half of these threads would be just blank Walt posts if we all removed incorrect posts

#19 Edgar Brooks

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:13 PM

The difference between the lengths of the two bombs is 4'6", and anyone who thinks they can work out the length, in a photograph taken at an angle, is living in a fantasy (WALTer Mitty, perhaps?) world. Has anyone considered that, in trials like that, they would not have used live bombs, but started off with empty shells? In the case of two Grand Slams, that would have lessened the load by 18,400lbs, or 10,400lbs, if they were Tallboys.

#20 oldbutnotwise

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Posted 27 July 2012 - 12:16 PM

It would seem that a Tallboy was used as a gate guard at RAF Scampton after the war.

When they came to widen the road in the 50s it was found that the thing was live!


seems there is some disagreement as to weather it was a Tallboy or a grandslam

wiki says grandslam, however they say the explosion would have destroyed much of northern Lincoln (including its cathedral)

a distance of about 5 miles - a 22000lbs bomb with a blast radius inexcess of 5 miles!

a 1 megaton Nuke is usually quoted as having a blast radius of 7 miles and would cause the destruction of building to a distance of about 5

a interesting if worring link
http://meyerweb.com/...ap/hydesim.html




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