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View Full Version : Def. Arm. of Light Aircr. Part I: Open stations

Romantic Technofreak
26th September 2005, 06:28
Defensive Armament of Light Aircraft Part I: Open Gun Stations

Not only totally obsolete aircraft in the beginning of WWII like the IMAM Ro.37 used open gun stations:

http://www.asso4stormo.it/arc2/fog/fog12.jpg

also modern aircraft like the Curtiss Helldiver:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Coridano/742c7875.jpg

and its Japanese contemporary counterpart, the Yokosuka D4Y:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Coridano/90435372.jpg

(the picture is from the infamous Yasukuni shrine, on the original you can recognize nearly nothing).

On the Helldiver, you can see that the upper rear fuselage cover is turned down a bit so that it is possible at all to turn the gun. Something similar obviously happened to the D4Y, although I am not sure if this is only a museum modification for reasons of display. If you look at this picture (it must be the same aircraft), you see there must be a very limited turning area for the gun:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/Coridano/b034ea3a.jpg

Also, the sight for the gunner must be hampered by the drum magazine. I also have read that it is impossible to turn a gun barrel by hand at a speed of over 400 kph. Any comments?
Trexx
27th September 2005, 04:10
Obsolete? Yes. But very nifty looking. I love to build models with those features.

The Helldiver had a fairly elaborate faired-door system to stow the rear firing guns when not needed.

It was very slick. I wonder how trouble free it was?
Trexx
28th September 2005, 06:23
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/897605/Ju_86_SWEDE_A.gif

The Ju-86 featured a retractable ventral turret without any windshield. It seemed to be as dangerous for the gunner as the gunners' targets... The early versions of the Ju-52-3m had the same set-up. Flippen' CRAZY!
Romantic Technofreak
9th October 2005, 01:03
On j-aircraft.com, I was told that the "Judy" (probably other Japanese aircraft too), in fact had a mechanism to move down the rearmost part of the canopy (it "spun on a longitudinal axis", contributor Robert Graham said) for to bring the mg into a firing position:

http://www.j-aircraft.com/walk/rod_larson/D4Y-Rear-3.jpg
Tony Williams
9th October 2005, 05:41
quote:Originally posted by TrexxThe Ju-86 featured a retractable ventral turret without any windshield. It seemed to be as dangerous for the gunner as the gunners' targets... The early versions of the Ju-52-3m had the same set-up. Flippen' CRAZY!

The retractable 'dustbin' ventral turret was quite common in the 1930s; several RAF bombers featured them, but they were soon removed as they slowed the plane down too much when extended.

Tony Williams
Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk
Groggy
14th October 2005, 01:27
quote:Originally posted by Tony Williams

quote:Originally posted by TrexxThe Ju-86 featured a retractable ventral turret without any windshield. It seemed to be as dangerous for the gunner as the gunners' targets... The early versions of the Ju-52-3m had the same set-up. Flippen' CRAZY!

The retractable 'dustbin' ventral turret was quite common in the 1930s; several RAF bombers featured them, but they were soon removed as they slowed the plane down too much when extended.

Tony Williams
Military gun and ammunition website: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk



About seven years ago I met a chap who had flown in Harts and Battles, survived France ended up in Coastal Command and then ditched three times. Pre war he said that if one lost a drum in the airflow your pay was docked 7/6d, seven shillings and six pence, guess about seventy five pounds sterling or about one hundred and thirty dollars US. He some how gave the impression that he did not like the Fairey Battle.
Che_Guevara
25th October 2005, 09:40
quote:Originally posted by Trexx



The Ju-86 featured a retractable ventral turret without any windshield. It seemed to be as dangerous for the gunner as the gunners' targets... The early versions of the Ju-52-3m had the same set-up. Flippen' CRAZY!


Like the He 111 B ;)

http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/photos/gallery_005/He%20111B%20from%20KG%2088%20drops%20bombs%20over% 20Spain%201937.jpg


Best wishes,
Che.