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Trexx
1st September 2005, 05:53
I know many here are lukewarm to the event, I still think it's one of the most compelling things in civilian aviation besides Rattan's Space ship.


AND...they're coming up!

There will be many Soviet World War Two fighters in the Unlimited Class this year.
...and the ol' ball in chain is going ocean sport fishing...

YIPPIE!

GregP
1st September 2005, 09:39
Man oh man. I am a huge fan and have seen some wonderful races!

Yes, we have those people here who have the need to tell others how they should treat a private aircraft, but I love to watch 'em run.

They only RACE at Reno.

All the other so-called races are really a kind of "rally around the pylons and show the audience how it might look if we did it for real" type affairs. It all has to do with the prize money or, rather, lack thereof. Why risk damage to a Merlin for $50,000? I wouldn't. An overhaul will eat up much more than that!

Anyway, I expect Jon Sharp will be there this year ready with Nemisis NXT which, for you "don't race the WWII fighter" types out there, is a purpose-designed new 2-seat racer in the Sport class. I think Jon Sharp will hit 400 mph if he doesn't have engine problems. That bodes well for the class and could mean that in a few years, the sport-class racers may be almost as fast, if not faster, than the WWII iron. When that happens, there won't be any more REASON to race the WWII iron, and only those who WANT to race WWII fighters will do it. Most of the pilots simply want to race the fastest aircraft they can get.

Oh yeah, there will likely be more than one Nemisis NXT aircraft there, so maybe we'll see a really good race in Sport-class. I hope so. The only thing I'll really miss then is the sound of a racing Merlin or a racing P&W. Unless they work on the Lycoming exhaust system, it just isn't the same!

Trexx
7th September 2005, 06:16
Excitement builds...

Great news, GregP.

Here's a choice racer with a gunslinger heritage:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/897605/P-51_Voodo.gif

The culture of aviation is the best showcase of human acomplishment that ever was...

GregP
7th September 2005, 09:19
Great pic. Here's Nemesis NXT, which will race in the same "Sport Class" as the Thunder Mustang. Oh yeah, the pic above is a REAL P-51D, not a Thunder Mustang.

http://www.aafo.com/racing/2004/nemesisNXT_debut/images/pages.php?directory=.¤tPic=10

Hhmmmmmm ... Doesn't seem to like the link ...

Wuzak
7th September 2005, 13:02
Problem was Greg, the link you gave had spaces in it, and was not a picture.

http://www.aafo.com/racing/2004/nemesisNXT_debut/images/pages.php?directory.¤tPic10

http://www.aafo.com/racing/2004/nemesisNXT_debut/images/08.jpg

GregP
8th September 2005, 10:34
Thanks Wuzak!

The Nemesis NXT was using about 380 hp to go 385 mph. The special NXT Lycoming is capable of 600-650 hp, so it SHOULD be fast.

Probably won't challenge the Unlimited planes for a few years, but someone like Jon Sharp eventually WILL, and will do it without a Merlin.

My bet is either Jon Sharp or Burt Rutan. Probably John Roncz will do the wing. Just my feeling.

I look forward to competitive racing at high speed, and the sport class HAS it. It has become my favorite or second favorite class ... depends on the race!

Trexx
9th September 2005, 02:13
quote:Originally posted by GregP

Thanks Wuzak!

The Nemesis NXT was using about 380 hp to go 385 mph. The special NXT Lycoming is capable of 600-650 hp, so it SHOULD be fast.

Probably won't challenge the Unlimited planes for a few years, but someone like Jon Sharp eventually WILL, and will do it without a Merlin.

My bet is either Jon Sharp or Burt Rutan. Probably John Roncz will do the wing. Just my feeling.

I look forward to competitive racing at high speed, and the sport class HAS it. It has become my favorite or second favorite class ... depends on the race!


Yes! Excellent comments!

It's very cool when they all take off in a gagle (ie; Sport & Formula types) Besides the MOVIES, that is the only time that I get to see that. You know... a field full of air planes bounding down the 'runway' and taking off together in a big bunch. The sound is quite noteworthy and the spectacle is to behold! And it happens every year!

Trexx
18th September 2005, 08:07
I've got a new camera and I'm going tomorrow. 9-18-05.

Wuzak
18th September 2005, 21:46
quote:Originally posted by GregP

Thanks Wuzak!

The Nemesis NXT was using about 380 hp to go 385 mph. The special NXT Lycoming is capable of 600-650 hp, so it SHOULD be fast.

Probably won't challenge the Unlimited planes for a few years, but someone like Jon Sharp eventually WILL, and will do it without a Merlin.


So a very efficient plane!

What hp are they getting out of the Merlins these days? How fast do the Mustangs and the like go?

Are there any tricks that these racers do to the ex-warbirds that could have been done in WW2, or are they things that were learnt after WW2 with experience and years of tinkering?

I think it would be cool to see these legends take to the air in a race, even if some were modified almost beyond recognition. Not too much of this happens around these parts....

As for the races, is top speed the important thing? What sort of course do they do?

And for th eplanes, in unlimited class is there anything to stop somebody putting the turbine and prop set from a Tupolev Bear (at about 12000hp) into a racing airframe and going racing? Or is it piston engines strictly?

GregP
19th September 2005, 00:09
Hi Wuzak,

At Reno, there are three classes for the Warbirds: Gold, Silver, and Bronze. Gold is the fastest class.

Most P-51s in the Gold Class have reduced wingspan, smoothed aerodynamics, heavily modified engines and propellers, and many have a modified canopy. They are getting about 4000 to 4500 hp from the Merlins, and are hitting 470 to 500+ mph around an 8-mile course. The course is roughly oval in shape. Racers pull about 6 Gs around the course to stay tight around the pylons.

Lyle Shelton's Bearcat (Rare Bear) has had the R-2800 engine replaced with an R-3350, and he experiments with different propellers every few years. His radial puts out about 5500 hp at full throttle with Nitrous Oxide injection. There is very little left of the original Bearcat, and Rare Bear can go faster than the design speed of the wing. He has the official world speed record at 529+ mph.

The racers at Reno are not practical aircraft for a WWII deployment. The engines are tweaked to VERY high power levels and they could not fly a mission die to poor relaibility and fuel constraints, and they are not armed. A few have propellers so big that they must stay in the 3-point attitude. If the pilot were to allow the tail to come up, the prop would hit the ground.

By way of example, Lyle Shelton's Rare bear has a system for retracting the landing gear that is good for one or two cycles before needing to be renewed. The intent was to save weight.

Therefore, as fast as they are, they would NOT be suitable for any mission I can think of.

Many of the Silver and Bronze class racers have essentially stock airframes with tweaked engines. These go around the course in the 420 to 460 range and are kept that way because the owners do not want to damage the stock airframes. Nevertheless, they put on a good race, and I like these probably the best.

You may think that 420 to 460 mph is not much faster than stock aircraft, but that is not true. Reno is nowhere NEAR the best altitude for a fighter speed run, and the course is roughly circular. Most WWII "top speeds" were demonstrated at the best altitude for the engine-propeller combination, and were flown in a straight line.

Wuzak
19th September 2005, 22:54
I guess if they flew at an altitude conducive to top speed they wouldn't be seen by the spectators.

What sort of altitude do they run?

4000hp from a Merlin is amazing!

GregP
20th September 2005, 11:05
The planes at Reno run at anywhere from about 250 feet above ground level (AGL) down to about 30 feet AGL. Mostly, they stay at about 100 to 150 feet.

Reno is about 4500 feet MSL, though I'm not exactly sure of the elevation at the base of the tower. Suffice to say is is between 4500 and 5000 MSL.

Lightning
21st September 2005, 22:14
Hi Wuzak & Greg P,

And on a really hot day, the density altitude of the course could be 1000 feet higher. High humidity could make it higher yet, but I doubt that this would come into play in the dry climate of Nevada.

Regards,
Lightning

Wuzak
21st September 2005, 22:30
Are they allowed to run twin engined aircraft?

pmjwright
22nd September 2005, 07:44
Wuzak, to answer a couple of your questions about Reno, I checked out the official website:

"The elevation of the race course varies from slightly above 4900 ft MSL to a bit above 5100 ft MSL at the north side of the Unlimited course."

"Unlimited class is open to any piston-driven aircraft with an empty weight greater than 4500 lbs (the weight restriction was added in 2005)." Twin-engined a/c would qualify, and in fact a F-7F Tigercat competed this year. But it definitely rules out turboprops.

"Unlimited aircraft run on a pear-shaped course...." To me it looks like a slightly imperfect oval, wider at the south end. Not my idea of a pear. A lap is 8.4803 miles (13.6473 km).

According to the map, the Unlimited curves are designed for a constant 3.5g at 500 mph--not 6g as GregP indicates (though no doubt those could be reached if your line isn't good).

Still, it's remarkable the speeds achieved, even the stock aircraft, at an altitude way below their performance peak and on a curved course with those g's bleeding off their airspeed!

Trexx
22nd September 2005, 17:44
quote:Originally posted by Wuzak

Are they allowed to run twin engined aircraft?




Yep...saw a F7F Tigercat ripping around the pylons this time.

They've also run P-38's. The Pond Racer (Bill Rattans exotic ship)...

IT'S REALLY COOL, YOU SHOULD GO! PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD TO CHECK OUT THE SPECTACLE, AS IT'S THE ONLY TRUE AIR RACING IN THE WORLD! Come on out to the west if you like fine planes and golden women! WOO-HOO!

Wuzak
22nd September 2005, 21:35
quote:Originally posted by Trexx

IT'S REALLY COOL, YOU SHOULD GO! PEOPLE COME FROM ALL OVER THE WORLD TO CHECK OUT THE SPECTACLE, AS IT'S THE ONLY TRUE AIR RACING IN THE WORLD! Come on out to the west if you like fine planes and golden women! WOO-HOO!


One day, maybe.

Many thousands of miles away over here.

Ricky
23rd September 2005, 02:01
Some lovely pctures...

http://www.airrace.org/galleryTop.php

GregP
23rd September 2005, 09:26
Hi guys,

The 6g I mentioned are in real races, seen in videos from real cockpits. An ideal line is about 3.5g as stated above, but competitors have a way of getting in the ideal line. For a real competitor, it is worth staying light on the g-load since pulling g reduces speed. Try flying through the wake turbulence of a Hawker Sea Fury at 460 mph and staying at 3.5g! You can't do it.

I've always heard the laps were 8 miles (U.S. statue miles: 5280 feet).

Except for the jet class, the racers must be piston engined, propeller-driven aircraft. The various classes are broken out, but amlost anything can race in the Unlimited as long as it weighs enough.

Great sport!

Trexx
27th September 2005, 04:03
I've got some photos too. I've just got my Pay Pal account expanded to accomodate them so I can post them here. Stand-by in a few days, I'll put them up.

The AIR RACES are truly unbelievable. It's like World War Two in your face.

The Rare Bear F8F Bearcat racer lapped all but two of the competitors in the last GOLD RACE. YOu should see what it looks like when a F8F overtakes R3640 Powered SEAFURIES when you can see the tops of their wings over the desert floor a mile off while their 40 fEEt off the ground. And then, rip past the remaining slow pokes right in front of the grandstans at FOURHUNDRED AND NINETY MILES PER HOUR! ...IT IS A SIGHT TO BEHOLD! AND THE SOUND IS A SYMPHONY!

Mark J
27th September 2005, 19:46
Hey guys
These worked Merlins and P&W's, do they sound any different from the factory engines?

cheers

GregP
28th September 2005, 10:21
The reworked engine do not sound much different from stock engines at stock speeds and power levels. As the manifold pressure builds past stock limits, they get louder. As RPM builds above stock levels, the sound gets to a slightly higher pitch.

In the end, you have a very LOUD engine with a shrieking supercharger or turbocharger coming past with a prop that is slightly below or right at supersonic. At rce speeds, these things are LOUD, but only after the aircraft has passed the observer.

Wuzak
28th September 2005, 12:14
I notice that the Nemesis NXT has slightly unusually shaped props.

Do the fast warbird guys use similar props? Any use counter props?

Trexx
29th September 2005, 03:39
quote:Originally posted by Wuzak

I notice that the Nemesis NXT has slightly unusually shaped props.

Do the fast warbird guys use similar props? Any use counter props?


Yes. Modifications include that sometimes.

The Rare Bear F8F broke the speed record with a modified propeller from a Lockheed P-3 Orion. It is using a totally new propller these days.
The Red Baron P-51 Mustang featured a contra-rotating propeller system. It crashed. The 'Miss Ashley II', had married a P-51 with a Lear Jet wing. It suffered catastrophic structural failure right at the start of 1999's Gold race though. The wings fell off. Modifications that are too severe seem to have an undesireable effect.

Trexx
4th October 2005, 03:37
Here's some of my photographs.
I've been very busy at work and it has delayed these shots for you folks. It was a great time, there are always new, restored planes that you'd never expect to see for real with your own eyes.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/897605/F7F_Tigercat_B.gif

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/897605/F7F_Tigercat_A.gif

Trexx
4th October 2005, 03:40
Here's some more!

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/897605/F8F_Bearcats.gif

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/897605/F8F_Bearcat.gif

Trexx
4th October 2005, 03:43
This is a "Super F4U Corsair". It has a R4360 engine and a full bubble canopy.

It's performance is astounding. You can really tell when it goes vertical. It did not race, but did extreme aerobatics.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/897605/F4U_Corsair.gif

Trexx
4th October 2005, 03:47
This is a factory-perfect Fairy Firefly. It has radar and everything.
There are many such planes on static display. They compete for "Best Restoration". No cutting or modifying on these baby's.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/897605/Fairy_Firefly.gif

Trexx
4th October 2005, 05:23
This is the Martin Baker Mk1 MB-5 prototype that has been restored and is the only one in exsistance. It is one of four original handbuilt prototypes.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/897605/Martin_Baker_Mk1.gif

Trexx
4th October 2005, 05:27
RENO HAPPENS EVERY YEAR!

Woo-Hoo!

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/897605/P-51.gif

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2004-11/897605/Troy.gif
Ol' Trexx eatin' it up!

Wuzak
4th October 2005, 07:00
Great pics Trexx.

Trexx
4th October 2005, 07:02
Here's a test little movie:

MVI_0213.AVI

simon
4th October 2005, 07:10
No, here's a little red cross! :D

GregP
4th October 2005, 08:51
Thanks for the pics, Trexx!

Are your sure the MB-5 is restored? I recall readinf about a group making a close facimile out of a new fuselage and wings from a P-51H Mustang. Are you sure that isn't a hybrid built to LOOK like the MB-5?

Not complaining, just asking? :)

I wish I had been there WITH you! :D

Trexx
4th October 2005, 09:13
quote:Originally posted by GregP

Thanks for the pics, Trexx!

Are your sure the MB-5 is restored? I recall readinf about a group making a close facimile out of a new fuselage and wings from a P-51H Mustang. Are you sure that isn't a hybrid built to LOOK like the MB-5?

Not complaining, just asking? :)

I wish I had been there WITH you! :D


I'm not sure. The dude that was hanging out with it said that it was mostly remanufactured (around ninety percent) but the basic airframe was an MB prototype. ...for what it's worth...

Trexx
4th October 2005, 09:14
quote:Originally posted by simon

No, here's a little red cross! :D


RATS!

Ricky
4th October 2005, 18:34
Lovely pics though - thanks for sharing!

And nice to see you too.:)

Trexx
5th October 2005, 11:57
You are all most certainly welcome!

Start planning for next year. I've got a couch and a hammock...

Wuzak
6th October 2005, 08:54
If you still want to share the movie Trexx, you could try http://www.rapidshare.de/

Trexx
7th October 2005, 09:27
Trying the movie again:
http://rapidshare.de/files/5964665/MVI_0046.AVI.html

Wuzak
7th October 2005, 11:48
This is the movie file:

http://dl4.rapidshare.de/files/5964665/53199014/MVI_0046.AVI