Heavy bombardment machine

[Wuzak]

Imagine you have been given the task, in early 1943, of leading a heavy bomber force for the purpose of destroying German industry.

You have the choice of 4 heavy bombers:

1. Avro Lancaster

http://www.thedambusters.org.uk/images/lancaster/LancMain.jpg

2. Boeing B-17 Flying Fortress

http://www.afhra.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/080129-f-3927s-225.jpg

3. Consolodated B-24 Liberator

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c3/B-24_'Diamond_Lil'.jpg/655px-B-24_'Diamond_Lil'.jpg

4. Handly Page Halifax

http://www.baseballinwartime.com/images/Halifax_III.jpg


You can bomb day or night, or both, and assume you have been able to build up a force of long range escorts, for both day and night sorties, which can cover the bombers on all but the longest range missions.

Also assume that you can only procure one type for this task, and that equipment (eg bomb sight) will be the same.

Which bomber do you choose?
Do you bomb by day or night, or both?
Do you have any (minor) upgrades to request?

[Kutscha]

There is only 2 that can be considered as they had a heavy bomb load. The other 2 had medium bomb loads.

Lancaster and then the Halifax. Both would get .50" mgs.

[Pioneer]

I would have to say the Avro Lancaster.

Predominantly due to its then massive (and useful) bomb load.

Also its massive bomb bay gave the design much growth, versatility and diversity of roles and missions.

Its strength was also impressive!

Although I would have opted for 12.7mm MG in place of 7.92mm any day!!!

I would also have opted for a ventral turret somewhere, somehow???


But is it not somewhat ironic that the poor old Halifax was overshadowed by the Lancaster, while the B-17 overshadowed the importance of the B-24!!



Regards

Pioneer

[Trexx]

The Flying Fortress!

Daylight intrusions, naturally. For the purpose of stunning the Germans with Art Deco beauty!

[Wuzak]

It is interesting that the B-17 and B-24 both started without nose turrets, but with hand held guns, and finished with nose turrets. Meanwhile the Halifax started with a front turret and ended with a glazed nose with a hand held gun.

The difference between day and night operations and requirements.

[Groggy]

It is interesting that the B-17 and B-24 both started without nose turrets, but with hand held guns, and finished with nose turrets. Meanwhile the Halifax started with a front turret and ended with a glazed nose with a hand held gun.

The difference between day and night operations and requirements.

And if you were a member of the crew and wanted to survive, which one?

[Wuzak]

Evidently there wasn't much use for a front turret at night, and the extra speed without one was most desirable.

During the day with the tactics evolved around mutual defensive fire, and the Liftwaffe's tactics of head on attacks make forward facing guns a requirement. Whether they need be fixed guns (as on the side on B-26s) or mounted in turrets is debatable.

[dakian67]

Avro Lancaster, but armed with .5 Browning's and 20mm canons.It was fast, heavy loaded, well defended ( of course, a ventral turett might be wellcomed...) and, why not, a beautiful plane !

[GregP]

Hey, where's the King of the WWII Heavies, the Boeing B-29?

It is, by FAR, the best, being simultaneously the fastest, longest range, most payload, best defended bomber of the war.

[Kutscha]

Hey, where's the King of the WWII Heavies, the Boeing B-29?

It is, by FAR, the best, being simultaneously the fastest, longest range, most payload, best defended bomber of the war.

Not to be found as it is a super heavy. :)

[Ricky]

It also suffered the problem of not being able to carry larger bombs internally.
A minor problem, I admit;)

[Lightning]

Hi All,

Because of the combination of its range, speed, altitude ceiling, defensive armament, and ability to absorb tremendous punishment and still carry out its mission and return, I choose the B-17.

The lancaster--my second choice--had the bomb-load advantage, but with the way the B-17s were being cranked out, that could be offset by sheer numbers.

Regards,

Lightning

[Wuzak]

Hi All,

Because of the combination of its range, speed, altitude ceiling, defensive armament, and ability to absorb tremendous punishment and still carry out its mission and return, I choose the B-17.

The lancaster--my second choice--had the bomb-load advantage, but with the way the B-17s were being cranked out, that could be offset by sheer numbers.

Regards,

Lightning

Do you think that with the resources spent on the B-17 that the Lanc could have been made in similar numbers?

The British made 7300+ Lancs and some 12700+ B-17s were built.

[curmudgeon]

Hey, where's the King of the WWII Heavies, the Boeing B-29?

It is, by FAR, the best, being simultaneously the fastest, longest range, most payload, best defended bomber of the war.
Not available 1943 as required ...
Only reliable from spring 1945

[Moonlight]

And if you were a member of the crew and wanted to survive, which one?


Well if you wnated a higher survival rate it would be the fortress. Lancasters had a low crew survivability rate because they tended to go into a spin very easily when hit. Most survivors from lancs were tail gunners.

[Flo]

Lancaster Vs, ;) equiped with dorsal Hispanos and .50 AGLT IIIs as soon as they became available.
http://i1193.photobucket.com/albums/aa341/Flosailor/7800L-4.jpg
I'd fit better escape hatches into them, too.
I'd have a long, hard think about my targets. By day or by night, I'd want something a bit more specific than the workers housing adjacent to Germanys major industries. Oboe, GEE and GEE-H allowed considerable accuracy, I'd make better use of it.

[Kutscha]

Well if you wnated a higher survival rate it would be the fortress. Lancasters had a low crew survivability rate because they tended to go into a spin very easily when hit. Most survivors from lancs were tail gunners.

The Lanc tail gunner had to climb out of the turret, climb over the tail spar, put on his chute and then exit out the side hatch. Hard to do in a spinning a/c.

[flying kiwi]

The heavier weapons and heavier load able to be carried by the Lancaster make it my choice.

[Arossihman]

The fort is my choice because i think it edged the lanc out in surviveability and defensive armament

[Flo]

It's defensive armament was massive, but it's performance was lacklustre. More importantly there were serious gaps in its weapon arcs. More isn't always better, there were more efficient designs in the Allied inventory.

Just a thought. Four T-bolts could bring 10,000lbs of ordinance to a target 400 miles away, and drop it with pin-point accuracy. A Fort could only manage 8,000lbs the same distance. The differance is that strategic bombers often failed to hit a target 1000yds accross, even on 'successful' missions. In Dresden, after three days and nights of intense bombardment, neither the synthetic oil works at Liepzig nor the marshalling yards in the Friedrichstadt district, both large, obvious complexes and stated as primary targets for the raids, suffered a single hit. In fact, the closest any bomb landed to the marshalling yards was almost three miles away! :(

[Arossihman]

It's defensive armament was massive, but it's performance was lacklustre. More importantly there were serious gaps in its weapon arcs. More isn't always better, there were more efficient designs in the Allied inventory.

Just a thought. Four T-bolts could bring 10,000lbs of ordinance to a target 400 miles away, and drop it with pin-point accuracy. A Fort could only manage 8,000lbs the same distance. The differance is that strategic bombers often failed to hit a target 1000yds accross, even on 'successful' missions. In Dresden, after three days and nights of intense bombardment, neither the synthetic oil works at Liepzig nor the marshalling yards in the Friedrichstadt district, both large, obvious complexes and stated as primary targets for the raids, suffered a single hit. In fact, the closest any bomb landed to the marshalling yards was almost three miles away! :(

Never thought of it that way...being a t-bolt fan i really like that idea!

[Flo]

.......;)......