Fernbomber über dem Atlantik

[Che_Guevara]

This is an authentic report, as short movie, of the attacks of a Fw 200 Condor against convoys. With english subtitles, since this movie was captured by the allies. Rare Footage of the most beautiful plane ever seen in the sky. A real treasure, with rare attack scene of ships!!!!!!!!

http://www.realmilitaryflix.com/public/718.cfm?sd=55

Hope you´ve enjoyed it ;)

[Trexx]

Thanks, Che!

Wow! Low level attacks!

[Stony]

Great footage! But I've seen it before in a BBC documentary series "Reach for the Skies".

Nevertheless still impressive.

[Che_Guevara]

Indeed it is, can´t wait to see a real Condor, even it´s a civili version ;)

I was wondering seeing the attacks with their BoKas (Board Guns), would it be possible to sink such merchant ships with normal Mg 151/20 rounds? Since merchants ships weren´t armored with a thickness of their sides of about 10-20mm it must have been possible to penetrate it. So why using just a few bombs and a low chance of sinking, instead of a modified gun position underneath the plane, maybe with a twin Mk 103. So you would increase the range and the possibility to sink a ship?!

[Stony]

I think you need a shipload of rounds to do any real damage to a ship. And you have to do more attacks on the same target to get a result. With a bomb you have a instant result(when you hit the target).

[Che_Guevara]

hmm, but if you get the chance of firing at the target for just a minute, while your fly-in that might be possible to hit the ship with about 700 rounds. Having a twin Mg 151 and just a mag of about 60 rounds, would mean that you hit the target with about 120 rounds. If you place it at the waterline, that must cause some serious damage? I´ve seen gun camera footage of Hellcats in the PTO transforming japanese vessels into swiss cheese. So if you decide to attack the one ship, with two or three fly-ins i would guess it´s finished off, especially using the Mk 103. Unfortunately I don´t know the exact effect of a round of a Mg 151 or Mk 103 to 10-20mm plates of steel

[Stony]

I'm not an gun expert so I realy don't know the effcts of the mentioned guns..
Also take in mind that during the war a large number of allied merchant vessels were equiped with (light)AA guns and even with disposable Hurricanes... So a longer time over the target ment a larger risk of being shot down. Thus why making 3 or 4 strafing runs when a bomb does it in one.

[Che_Guevara]

Good point, agree with that!
But IIRC at the beginnig of their Operations (August 1940) most ships were just armed with Lewis Mgs, "Spud guns", no real danger for a Condor, at least for a short period.

...what makes me thinking is the bombload and the accuracy of the Fw 200, since they just used simple targeting instruments with the first versions. The Fw 200 could carry a 5400 kg bombload, however to preserve the long range capability (with all tanks filled up) it was "just" 1230kg left. So four to five f.e. ETC 250 bombs, might be enough to sink a ship or two

But what I was wondering, was the possibility to increase the chance of sinking a ship via board armament. If to many strafing runs would high up the risk, then one with some shots from a 7,5cm BK would still be a better option to the bombing run ;)

Since the Condor was a huge plane, might it be possible to use 3,7cm or 7,5 cm BK, or was it´s airframe to weak?

http://www.abload.de/img/bk758a14.gif

[curmudgeon]

I'm not an gun expert so I realy don't know the effcts of the mentioned guns..
Also take in mind that during the war a large number of allied merchant vessels were equiped with (light)AA guns and even with disposable Hurricanes... So a longer time over the target ment a larger risk of being shot down. Thus why making 3 or 4 strafing runs when a bomb does it in one.
I think this film was shortly after the fall of France. By late 1940 the AA capability of convey ships was increased in response to the threat of FW200s. CAM ships with Hurricats were available late 1941 through July 1943, by which time they were replaced by escort carriers. Hurricats shot down 3 FW200s, damaged another and drove 2 off.
FW200s are reported to have been too fragile for true use as a combat aircraft (recent profile in 'The Aeroplane').
The normal figure tossed around is that an AP round can penetrate armour to its own diameter. These probably weren't AP rounds and the hull would have been mild steel ... but 7.7mm MG fire was unlikely to sink a 5000 ton merchantman, whereas .303 MG fire could have been really nasty for a FW200, and 40mm 'pom pom' rounds devastating ...
As a naval weapon the Germans didn't have enough FW200s to be effective and foolishly gave away their hand by making nuisance attacks before they had committed to building sufficient.

[Stony]

Since the Condor was a huge plane, might it be possible to use 3,7cm or 7,5 cm BK, or was it´s airframe to weak?




Sure a big gun could be fitted in a FW200, but as you said I think the Condor was to fragile.

In the pacific B-25's with 75mm guns were succesfull against japanese shipping.
So a big gun in a plane makes good sense. But in addition with bombs and airsupremacy.

[dracos]

I've read of F4F's doing heavy damage to Japanese ships as well. How many F4Fs or F6Fs were involved in an attack on a ship? I'm thinking one or two Condors wouldn't have the same firepower as a group of fighters. The Condors are also larger and slower targets than the fighters.

Now if there were squadrons of attack planes for the Condors to guide in to the convoy. Or the radio-guided bombs, those could have been devastating to convoys.

[Ricky]

Hmmm... I have heard a lot of claims about the damage dealt to ships by US aircraft armed with .5 brownings, which often include the phrase 'sawn in half' - yet never any actual examples or proof. The nearest I've seen is a picture of a ship mid-strafe, with impressive-looking bullet strikes in a line along the water and up its side. While this might convince a pilot that he has sunk the ship, in reality I would suggest that it ranks alongside claims that P-47s destroyed Tiger tanks with their brownings.