Yankee Air Museum air show pics

[Kutscha]

Came acoss this site while doing some browsing. Superb photos.

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/AirShows/YankeeAirMuseum2005/Highlights/index.html

Enjoy.

[GregP]

Nice link!

Thanks! :)

[montanamotor]

Aaaaah,

whenever good things happen, I am elsewhere...

GREAT stuff! Loveitloveitloveit! Moremoremore!

Besides: Did anybody notice that, the Bf 109 Emil photographed here lacks it's slats...? Looks to me like, this one rather is a plastic replica of the "real thing", than anything else...?

O.K. - it may be a "Buchon"-conversion to an Emil, too. But it is NOT genuine. I swear. Btw - The absense of slats may well have contributed to an even worse behaviour of the plane at take-offs and landings, than would have appeared with them aboard.

Ya' know, they were put there by Willy Messerschmitt on purpose...

Famous last words: "Hey, Joe! Do ya' know what this bolt is good for?" "Nay!" "So off with it! It's so small, no one will even recognize!"

Cheers!

Montanamotor:)

[Kutscha]

"ON WHAT used to be an auxiliary landing field, are a newly constructed hangar and office building that Ontario architect Ed Russell plans to turn into a WW Il warbird museum. He recently purchased four magnificent, flyable WW Il aircraft: a Supermarine Spitfire IX (MK912) and an NAA Harvard Il (FE 992), formerly based in Duxford, England; and a Hawker Hurricane II (N678DP) and Messerschmitt Bf 109E (WkNr.3579, NX 81562, CF-ELM) from the recently closed Museum of Flying in Santa Monica, California.

The Spitfire served with RAF No. 312 (Czech) Squadron in 1944, and the Bf 109 was flown during the Battle of Britain, serving with Luftwaffe (J)LG2. Legendary Luftwaffe ace Hans-Joachim Marseille flew it as "White 14" and crash-landed it in France. After repairs, it later flew on the Russian front."

More about the 109E, http://www.ontario-warbirds.ca/bf109.htm

In this photo it looks like it has slats,
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=0958039&WxsIERv=Zrffrefpuzvgg%20Os%20109-R4&Wm=0&WdsYXMg=Hagvgyrq&QtODMg=Avntnen%20Snyyf%20Fbhgu%20-%20Ehffryy%20Tebhc%20Vap.&ERDLTkt=Pnanqn%20-%20Bagnevb&ktODMp=Nhthfg%205%2C%202005&BP=1&WNEb25u=Znex%20Orpxjvgu&xsIERvdWdsY=PS-RZY&MgTUQtODMgKE=Gnvy%20hc%2C%20evtug%20ehqqre%20nccyv rq%2C%20n%20srj%20zber%20zrgerf%20naq%20Jex.A.%203 579%20gnxrf%20gb%20gur%20nve%20ra%20ebhgr%20gb%20g ur%20Guhaqre%20bire%20Zvpuvtna%20fubj%20Nhthfg%206 %20naq%207%2C%202005.%20Gur%20fprar%20pbhyq%20rnfv yl%20or%201940%20nf%20guvf%20vf%20n%20ObO%20irgren a.%20%5BPnaba%20KG%20Erory-75%2F300%20VF%20HFZ%5D&YXMgTUQtODMgKERD=4311&NEb25uZWxs=2005-11-12%2004%3A16%3A19&ODJ9dvCE=&O89Dcjdg=3579&static=yes&width=1024&height=694&sok=JURER%20%20%28ert%20%3D%20%27PS-RZY%27%29%20%20BEQRE%20OL%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=2&prev_id=0975687&next_id=0903572

[GregP]

About the slats, I noticed the lack of same myself.

1) Since WWII, it has been widely aknowledged that the slats were not a good idea, and that wiring tham shut and fairing over the resulting openings would improve the airflow over the outer wing. This aircraft, if an original, is over 60 years old and may have had that particular "improvement" added.

2) It is possible this Bf 109E was made "from parts" and the wings are really from a much later variant that have had the wing tips "squared off."

3) A third possibility is that the plane may be going fast enough so the slats are closed and simply not apparent in this photo. When they are closed, a standard Bf 109's slats are apparent up close, but this may well be a blown-up long range shot and the detail is simply not there.

In any case, I'd like to know the answer, too! :)

[montanamotor]

Hey, Kutscha,

you are right. The slats are there, albeit undiscernible from the shot with the long lense. I regret my criticism and vow to mend - soon...

Besides: Implementing slats to the BF 109's wings wasn't soooo bad an idea, anyway. Proof: Me 262, F 86, F4F Phantom II and every other plane which used them later, too.

It's not the function of the slats, which made handling of the Bf 109 very interesting at times - it's the lack of synchronization, that is.

Due to wear and slack in the slat's rails, as well as to slight differences in airspeed of inside and outside wing in turns, the Bf's slats could pop out on one side only, which, as a consequence, would forcefully drive this wing upwards and would at best spoil your target aquisition only; yet, in the worst case, it could flip your Messerschmitt literally upside down at the worst possible moment...

In clean air, the Bf 109 was virtually impossible to stall, and had to be brought into a spin intentionally and forcefully. This was due to it's basic layout as a "Verfolgungsjäger" or "VJ" - a pursuit fighter! Jep: The germans also had their pursuit planes, which from scratch were designed only to pursuit and shoot down high- and fast-flying bombers at the edge of their aerodynamic capabilities for strictly defensive purposes.

And if a "VJ" would fire it's guns towards a bomber in thin stratosperic air, it was considered to potentially stall due to recoil, and consequently spin to the ground. To overcome this thread, the Bf 109 from scratch was equipped with the slats and a tail that was arranged very high compared to the engine thrust line, to make engaging a spin very difficult and to end a spin very easily and straightforward.

When the Bf 109 was designed, nobody expected that the next upcoming War would to a great extend consist of fighter vs. fighter scenarios. In the mid-30ies, it was thought that fighters in the future were to be used solely as a point-defense against long-ranging bombers, and no more. (Reminds me very much of the Bell P 39's basic design-paramount: Point-defense. Bf 109 only was luckier in having a very good compressor, while the essential turbosupercharger of the Bell P 39 later was omitted - with all known results.)

http://i111.photobucket.com/albums/n149/montanamotor/Barracuda%20pics/bf109v1.jpg

Enjoy the first picture ever being taken from the first Bf 109 ever being built. It doesn't even wear markings, yet. Colour is supposed to have been high gloss light gray overall, with red spinner. Err - and being the first prototype, it used a Rolls Royce Kestrel... Ouch!:)

I really wonder why no one has ever made an attemt to synchronize the Messerschmitt's slats; this might very easily have been achieved via a simple and straightforward arrangement of pushrods.

Well: If you want something to be done properly, you always have to do it yourself...

Cheers!

Montanamotor :D

[GregP]

Hi Montanamotor,

The Bf 109's slats were effective, but their asymmetric deployment is the very reason why it is now thought that they were a mistake.

If a Bf 109 was slow enough to have slats about to deploy in a stepp turn, then it was probably in combat, maybe close to the ground. At that critical time, I think having no slats was probably better than having asymmetric deployment. This is, of course, hindsight that is 70 years too late to matter and is only my opinion.

Personally, I think slots might have been almost as good as slats, and they have no deployment issues at all. Another possible solution is "combat flaps" that deploy symmetrically to about 3° to 10° depending on airspeed and g-force applied. They, too, would have no asymmetric deployment issues.

Then again, if Messerschmitt couldn't even fix a poor landing gear geometry issue that resulted in many Bf 109s being "written off," maybe asking them to correct aerdoynamic faults simply wasn't in the cards. They demonstrated a remarkable propensity for doing exactly the opposite ... adding aerodynamic faults. The Me 109G simply didn't fly as well as the F and all previous models due to increased weight, bulges added everywhere, and a general refusal to update the design to address the new requirements.

By the time the Me 109G came along, the entire airframe needed to be about 10% bigger, and the wing area needed to be slightly enlarged to have an acceptable wing loading. If they had done that, then there would have been no need to add bumps and bulges all over the place, the gear geometry could have been corrected, and the handling could have been markedly improved at higher airspeeds. The addded size would have allowed trim tabs to be fitted where there were none before, and the leverage to roll the aircraft at high speeds could have been made much better.

So, while I agree that the slats were effective, I stand by the fact that they were a mistake in a combat aircraft that was destined to do combat around the speeds where asymmetric slat deployment was a factor.

Just my opinion. History has already spoken and the Bf 109 is one of the great fighters of all times. If I ever built one for personal use, I'd probably opt to keep the slats since I don't fly combat. But I WOULD fix the gear geometry. As designed, the Bf 109 is, again in my opinion, only suitable for grass airfields, and these are in short supply these days ... :)

Fortunately, the SAI 403 Dardo has no such glaring ground handling faults!

[montanamotor]

I'll sign everything you stated here, Greg. It's right at the point.

Well - more often than not, ingenuity and madness are the two sides of the same coin, aren't they...?

I kind of remember that, while still in spanish service as fighter bombers after WW II, some of the ominous Merlin-driven Buchon-"Messerschmitts" got their slats blocked or, even removed and were equipped with quite large boundary fences, instead (see also Mig 15 and, 17). they work exactly the same way as slats do at slow speeds, but without any aerodynamical or mechanical hussle POSSIBLE at all. Sadly enough, they were designed and developed only AFTER WW II.

During this year's ILA aircraft exposition at Berlin Schönefeld in June this summer, the Bf 109 G10 owned by Daimler-Benz which was performing there, was the only warbird there always to take off and land at the grasstrack aside of the main concrete-runway. Even the Spitfire Mk. IVX, which was there, too, was using the runway, instead.

During landing, you saw the Bf-pilot kicking about the rudderpedals as if he was trying to DRIVE the plane forward with it's flapping rudder...

Well - the longer I consider it, the more I like the Dardo Nova...

Have you seen all the other pics from the fighterplanes wallpapers already? See:

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Wallpaper/Aircraft/Fighters/index.html#Bf109e2oClock

Yeah - the Bf 109 G10 for shure was a bitch to fly. But such a pretty bitch she was to fly... ;)

Cheers!

Montanamotor

P.S.: Why is the text in TGP running so wide suddenly? I didn't change my settings. Has anything changed in the TGP layout, which I haven't noticed yet?

[Kutscha]

Some 109 vids,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWu5yT4kFGg&search=Me109
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INMBpFnX6kg&search=Me109
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq21MLP8gYI&search=Me109
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR-CjNWvMlE&mode=related&search=messerschmitt%20Me109

At just past 1 minute, notice the landing.

Me210 vid,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk4Aiscs3jM&search=messerschmitt%20Me109

Fw190 vids,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YF6s7cGBowY&NR

This is the new build with the Russian engine.

And a Soviet vid of a captured A-4,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qayREUJe65w&mode=related&search=


Slats were used on earlier a/c, such as the Fairy Swordfish.

[GregP]

Great vids guys! thanks!

[Kutscha]

montana,

a vid of white 14, http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4639628744781713131&q=ww2+gov