Tail-Warning Radar...

[Double T]

To my knowledge, the Lockheed P-38L was the first aircraft to employ such a feature.

Quoted from "Fork-Tailed Devil-The P-38 by Martin Caidin:

"One of the more unusual additions (and a welcome one to the pilot) to the P-38L was the installation of tail-warning radar. An AN/APS-13 radar system was fitted within the aft part of the left tail-boom, The transmitter-reciever system picked-up the presence of an aircraft in a cone behind the P-38L, and immediately warned the pilot of this approaching machine by ringing a warning bell and flashing a warning red light alongside the gunsight."

How effective was this system?
Did pilots trust and depend on it, or were they still swiveling their heads and depending on those MkI eyeballs?
Did any other WW2 aircraft employ such a system?

Tim

[Red Admiral]

I'm sure something similar was used on Lancasters and Halifaxes at night with disastrous results. The German night fighters used their radar in passive mode and homed in on the active signals from the bomber's tails allowing them to remain undetected.

[PMN1]

quote:Originally posted by Red Admiral

I'm sure something similar was used on Lancasters and Halifaxes at night with disastrous results. The German night fighters used their radar in passive mode and homed in on the active signals from the bomber's tails allowing them to remain undetected.


Monica

[JoeB]

It was fitted to a number of late war USAAF fighters, P-51's, P-47's, P-61's and some other a/c. By the Korean War, it wasn't used, on US day fighters anyway. I've seen references by pilots to part of the equipment still being there in F-51's but the rest dismantled. The problem in day combat was too frequent false alarms. As mentioned, a potential problem at night for a bomber was helping an enemy night fighters locate it, which might otherwise not have, using passive receivers; and sometimes false alarms too.

In Korea the Soviets used active tail warning radar on their MiG-15's, from 1952, liked the results, and active tail warning radars were more common thereafter on Soviet planes than Western. At night, USMC/USN F3D's were considered to be at a considerable advantage to the otherwise more advanced USAF F-94's by having tail warning radar. Even if the enemy did pick it up (and in that case the night MiG's apparently did not have such receivers) in case of a night fighter you still knew he was there and could evade, unlike bombers which traditionally couldn't do much against a nightfighter once it had reached a firing position, and had given away a lot if they aided the nightfighter in detecting them.

Joe

[Wuzak]

I do believe German night fighters had tail warning radars too.

[curmudgeon]

quote:Originally posted by PMN1

quote:Originally posted by Red Admiral

I'm sure something similar was used on Lancasters and Halifaxes at night with disastrous results. The German night fighters used their radar in passive mode and homed in on the active signals from the bomber's tails allowing them to remain undetected.


Monica


A small number were also fitted on Mosquito nightfighters late in the war. Accounts indicate this was very effective in enabling interceptors to be intercepted. The earlier radars had a significant rear-facing lobe to their transmission signal, the tail-warners returned the capacity to 'look behind'.

Monica and H2S were both left switched on, making them beacons for passive recievers. According to RV Jones there were even superstitions about the efficacy of such bad practices in warding off flak.

[Lightning]

Hi All,

For several years, I worked on the tail-warning RADAR programs at Westinghouse in Baltimore, Maryland, USA. These units were installed on the B-52 and FB-111 bombers. They were considered to be very effective.

Regards,
Lightning

[curmudgeon]

quote:Originally posted by Lightning

Hi All,

For several years, I worked on the tail-warning RADAR programs at Westinghouse in Baltimore, Maryland, USA. These units were installed on the B-52 and FB-111 bombers. They were considered to be very effective.

Regards,
Lightning

I think that post WW II tail-warners were regarded as 'a good idea' (they were in WW II), but that with more sophisticated radars and with more judicious use the problems with 'monicas' attracting fighters in were overcome:
1) post WW II there were no such situations with flocks of nightfighters and stream of bombers night after night.
2) taking a peak behind every few minutes is all that is needed, and your own passive detector is looking out for a fighter homing by radar.

Question - post WW II why didn't bombers get a small, rearwards firing homing missile? It could be radar homing or (latter) infra-red. Would have dropped morale in all-weather interceptors somewhat precipitously. One shot would be all that was needed.

[Red Admiral]

quote:Question - post WW II why didn't bombers get a small, rearwards firing homing missile? It could be radar homing or (latter) infra-red. Would have dropped morale in all-weather interceptors somewhat precipitously. One shot would be all that was needed.

Presumably space grounds, and being launched into hot jet plume. IR wouldn't work so well as the incoming aircraft is dead-on with exhaust behind, a cold target.